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regular summer bunches

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Liv13

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helium

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Post Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:54 pm

Kellie wrote:My suggestion is when we plan a 'flat ride' we make sure we head somewhere we can incorporate a paceline for several kms (like Victoria Rd at O/hrb) and we all know beforehand the designated start and finish place of the paceline. Once finished, we wait for anyone who has been dropped along the way.

It would be best to ensure the finish is somewhere near a car park or side street that can be used to rolldown whilst waiting for stragglers :wink:


Kellie fantastic Idea!! I like! That way we all get best of both worlds :lol:
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Kellie

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helium

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Post Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:18 pm

Liv13 wrote:... fantastic Idea ..


just don't expect any more for this year ... that's my quota done :P
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Gemm

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:02 pm

Well someone's gotta say something.....

Just another friendly reminder regarding bunch etiquette - if you notice you're suddenly missing some people make sure you yell out for people to wait up! eg poor Sam got left behind with a puncture today and no one at the back yelled to the front for eveyone to look after him so he spent 30kms chasing. That's really poor form not looking out for each other and looking after each other.

Also for people at the front - there's absolutely no point filtering up the inside of cars at the traffic lights or undertaking/overtaking slow moving traffic in a bunch that big. You may think it's faster but as not everyone behind will be able to filter up to the front or overtake you'll end up having to wait for those left behind anyway. It's much more sensible to stay in one compact group. We're only going as fast as the last person anyway...

Speaking of compact - that means you ride with your handlebars level with the ride next to you and should be able to comfortably touch elbows with the person next to you. As far as the law goes that means you've got 'as far as left as practicable' and 'not riding more than 1.5m apart' covered.

Some of the gaps between riders today was so big today I could have fit my arse in there 5 times over, which is quite some distance (and unlawful). :lol:
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Daimo

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silks

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:22 pm

All good points Gemm and well noted. Especially regarding difficulty at the back - be it punctures or be it pace, yell out because if you're at the front you don't really know what's going on 5 metres back in the group.

I must say its hard to maintain a cohesive group when there's attacks going left right and centre along Military Road.... All good fun i guess...
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elgalad

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helium

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:25 pm

I agree with all of the above points.

A few comments though:

As I gather from speaking with Sam at the mill, he specifically told the guys at the back to not tell us to wait up, and that he would catch us further down the road. Otherwise, I agree that you should yell out and we can all hold up. Sam, we would have been happy to wait a few minutes for you to patch up your tube, mate :grin:

I think having the odd attack going off is fine, but when this occurs we really need to close up the gaps to keep the group together. It's no use having people attack, and then everyone leaving the resulting gaps open, the group just falls apart. A few moments effort, those gaps are closed, and the guys off the front can have their fun :cool:

Finally, the signalling through the group was really, really poor today. No indications of stopping or obstacles in the road for the most part. This is really poor. With such a large group, it's vital that the people at the front let everyone know what's happening further back (It helps keep the people at the back from getting into difficulty and/or falling over when the pack suddenly halts).
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Kellie

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helium

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:37 pm

Gemm wrote:Well someone's gotta say something.....

Sam got left behind with a puncture today


The easiest way to let the group know, is yell "puncture" *very loudly*. It's obvious what has happened in one word!

Gemm wrote: there's absolutely no point filtering up the inside of cars at the traffic lights or undertaking/overtaking slow moving traffic in a bunch that big.


In a bunch of 4+ riders, you should treat yourselves as ONE big moving object and not break from your formation. Instead of weaving up the front, get behind the last car on the inside lane. Yes you might get caught through another light change, but at least you won't p*ss off the motorists that made it to the intersection before you.
Live for today,
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Dr Matt

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:39 pm

Re: regular summer bunches

wow, sounds like some participants are in for some rude shocks if this is the current behavior.

My advice for all capable riders in a bunch like this - deliberatly split the bunch and sent the anti-social assclowns up to road. Better a smaller coherant bunch than one that deserves to be on today tonight with a taxi-cam.

Gemm, I cant seem to remember where I've seen suggestions awfully similar to yours ... oh wait

Matt D wrote: - We will mostly ride in double paceline. 2 riders abreast and however many long. Echelon is not a good idea, nor is leaving large gaps or halfwheeling the person next to you.
- Stay in bunch form at all times. Don't carve the bunch up to go around cars at traffic lights. The bunch should stay in formation and behave as one large PREDICTABLE slow road user.
- 20 minute turns on the front. To go down to the back, lead riders should open wide and wave the following riders through. Its a very good idea to shoulder check before doing this.
- Hand signals. Point out road hazards and call them if necessary. Potholes, glass and 5cm+ rocks are ok, pointing out a paddlepop stick is plain silly. This works best if you give at least 5 seconds notice for the signal to propagate down the bunch so the guys at the back get it before they ride over the hazard.
- Be predictable. Keep an eye on the person in front and an eye on the person in front of them. Stay aware and keep your mind on the job in hand.
cheers
Matt..

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with the wrong tools, you'll have to give me a minute ... and a new right shoulder ... and a new upper spine ...

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Daimo

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silks

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:20 pm

I would just like to thank those PACC members, who after the Bakery Run, followed on up and tackled the Windy Point climb.

I posted a PB and if it wasnt for the motivation of the PACC riders behind me, i dont think this would have happened. Thanks guys - to me, you're all champions.

http://www.cycle2max.com/c2m/c2max.nsf/ ... endocument

Cheers,

Daimo.
The meaning of life is a life of meaning.
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aimeebear

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helium

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:25 pm

In a bunch of 4+ riders, you should treat yourselves as ONE big moving object and not break from your formation. Instead of weaving up the front, get behind the last car on the inside lane. Yes you might get caught through another light change, but at least you won't p*ss off the motorists that made it to the intersection before you


I view this one as a BIG rule to follow ... it is a big safety issue (and you will also piss off motorists :wink: ) as it is incredibly hard to maouvre from double paceline down the side of several cars/trucks/busses weaving in and out etc...

I must say I was quite dissapointed at a few stages during todays ride, however I did not feel the need to follow what was happening and caught up in my own time. Hopefully as we ride together more in the coming times ahead we will all get the hang of working together a bit more :smile: Still made for a beautiful ride

Good times
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Daimo

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silks

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Post Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:34 pm

Re: regular summer bunches

Matt D wrote:wow, sounds like some participants are in for some rude shocks if this is the current behavior.

My advice for all capable riders in a bunch like this - deliberatly split the bunch and sent the anti-social assclowns up to road. Better a smaller coherant bunch than one that deserves to be on today tonight with a taxi-cam.


I tend to think, in heinsight, that given the racing on offer on Saturday, to play-race on the Bakery Run, is a bit off. Is it incorrect to suggest that in this particular instance, that the attacks caused group fragmentation, fragmentation caused poor group conduct, and that the flow-on effects constitute the lion share of the negative comments i have read in this forum on the matter?
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David

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helium

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Post Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:19 am

Apart form all the other stuff, maybe we need some clarification on the definition of the 'attacks'. To my mind, the attacks are otherwise know as 'Pedestrian Light Sprints' (or PLS for short.) There were a few crazy sprints going on yesterday that seemed to be in the middle of nowhere to no particular target and I must admit to a case of brain fade in one of them myself along Military Rd.
I was always under the impression that PLS were fair game as long as they are safe and no one goes pulling out into a second lane of traffic, or charging out from the left hand line of the bunch, after all the PLS are not for sheepstations. Once they are over, participants drop back to the bunch and normal bunch riding resumes.
If the PLS are going to be a PACC bunch ride faux pas then me and Lukie need to know so we can stop having to keep an ear out for that surrpetitious clicking up into the big chainring 500m out from pedestrian crossings! :lol:
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Dr Matt

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Post Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:01 am

David wrote:I was always under the impression that PLS were fair game as long as they are safe and no one goes pulling out into a second lane of traffic, or charging out from the left hand line of the bunch, after all the PLS are not for sheepstations. Once they are over, participants drop back to the bunch and normal bunch riding resumes.


David, you've pretty much got that perfectly correct, with a couple of omissions
number one is the two riders on the front of the main bunch must keep the bunch together, which means they dont sprint. Everyone else from second wheel back however :twisted:
The second is usually keep the sprints short and preferentially use them for things like cadence efforts and brushing up the skills for watching and waiting and timing the sprints right. Having the enduro's attack 2km out is a bit silly :grin:
The third is get back to bunch a quickly as sensible and go back to the position you were in when it started. Using the PLS as an excuse to end up on the back of the bunch and skipping turns is just being soft :violent1:
cheers
Matt..

with the right tools, I can do anything
with the wrong tools, you'll have to give me a minute ... and a new right shoulder ... and a new upper spine ...

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Liv13

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helium

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Post Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:05 am

David wrote:I must admit to a case of brain fade in one of them myself along Military Rd


I also admit to this one... in fact i think i started it by chasing down Furby. My Bad :oops:
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Dallas

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silks

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Post Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:24 am

Daimo wrote:I would just like to thank those PACC members, who after the Bakery Run, followed on up and tackled the Windy Point climb.

I posted a PB and if it wasnt for the motivation of the PACC riders behind me, i dont think this would have happened. Thanks guys - to me, you're all champions.

http://www.cycle2max.com/c2m/c2max.nsf/ ... endocument

Cheers,

Daimo.


Only 394W?? C'mon - sureley you had another 6 in you to crack 400? :banghead:
Seriously though, Awesome effort dude! Especially after the hard race the day before!
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Daimo

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silks

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Post Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:16 pm

Re: regular summer bunches

Just a few contradictions??

Matt D wrote: - Stay in bunch form at all times. ... The bunch should stay in formation and behave as one large PREDICTABLE slow road user.
- 20 minute turns on the front. To go down to the back, lead riders


And then...

Matt D wrote: Everyone else from second wheel back however :twisted:
The second is usually keep the sprints short and preferentially use them for things like cadence efforts and brushing up the skills for watching and waiting and timing the sprints right. Having the enduro's attack 2km out is a bit silly :grin:



Is it any wonder people don't know how to conduct themselves.
The meaning of life is a life of meaning.
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