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Dr Matt

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Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:33 pm

regular summer bunches

good afternoon everyone.

This post has a little bit of bad news, and some good news. With the Hanson Reserve resurfacing being somewhat problematic :cry: , the PACC and KCC clubs have decided to postpone all saturday morning track racing until a suitable surface can be obtained.

We shall be hosting a criterium on the Wingfield circuit on every opportune Sunday, but that still leaves us a number of Saturdays free. I'm proposing we organise a training bunch in replacement of track racing.

The aim of this bunch is quite simple. Its an opportunity for all interested riders to join us for a ride around Adelaide and nearby regions. As with previous bunches, we're not looking to average 36 all day, thus half-wheelers and hammerheads need not apply.

Some days will be mostly flat, some days will not. Yes, there will be sections of the ride dedicated to actually getting fitter and stronger. Typically these will be climbs where everyone can open the taps and suffer at their own pace. There will be a designated "top" and "bottom", between which everyone is welcome to go nuts :twisted: .

From an organisational point of view I do have some expectations for these rides.

:arrow: you will be at the meeting point on time. When we set a time, you get 5 minutes grace and then bunch is gone. There will be no waiting for you to suck down that second cappuccino before rolling out 15 minutes late. I'd suggest you leave early enough to puncture and still make it on time.

:arrow: you will be able to ride double paceline bunch. If you can't, then let us know and we'll sort someone to train you in the finer points of it.

:arrow: you will respect road rules and other users.

:arrow: you will actually try to act as part of bunch. Disruptive or dangerous riders will not be welcome. Doing your interval training is for solo or small coherant bunches, not for the main bunch.

:arrow: spares will not be provided. Thus BYO tubes (2 spares is a good start), tyre levers and pump; and please make sure you actually know how to use them. Bribe me to show you how to change a tube in under 5 minutes.

Bunch guidelines (think of them more as rules :twisted: )

:arrow: We will mostly ride in double paceline. 2 riders abreast and however many stacked long. Echelon is specifically illegal, so we won't be doing it. Sloppy bunch formation is also deserved of ridicule.

:arrow: wheel sitting. You will be expected to be able to do this. Your front wheel should be 30-40cm behind and no more than 10cm laterally of the wheel in front and your handlebars level with the person next to you. The good'ole triathlete one(length) out & one (length) back is unacceptable. As with the bunch, if you're not confident doing this then let us know and we'll help you to learn and practise in less demanding environments.

:arrow: When cruising (most of the time) stay in bunch form at all times. The bunch should stay in formation and behave as one large PREDICTABLE slow road user. Specifically don't carve the bunch up to go around cars at traffic lights. I also expect the bunch will break formation over climbs and for designated sprint zones, but I also expect that riders will be smart about how and when they do this keeping respect for other road users.

:arrow: 20 minute turns on the front. To go down to the back, lead riders should open wide and wave the following riders through. Its a very good idea to shoulder check before doing this. It's also a damn good idea to set a pace you can maintain for twenty minutes. Nothing says soft & silly like someone who hammers for three minutes before wilting and going down the back.

:arrow: halfwheeling: just don't do it. Its rude to the rider next to you, disruptive to the bunch as you peel off at odd times and likely to earn you a derogative user title around here. Since the bunch should be cruising when in double line formation, the weaker rider of the front pair sets the pace within reason.

:arrow: Hand signals. Point out road hazards and call them by voice if necessary. Potholes, glass and 3cm+ rocks are ok, pointing out a paddlepop stick is plain silly. Given the whole obstacle thing is a bit of a grey area, I suggest pointing anything you wouldn't ride over no-hands.
Some of the finer points to consider - only point out the crap that directly affects YOU. Pointing something on the other side of the guy next to you is confusing to the riders behind. Also consider the time it takes for a signal to propagate down the bunch - it's not immediate so give the other end of the bunch a few seconds notice. Something like 3-4 seconds is plenty. Additionally note that failing to make or pass signals when its important isn't a sign of "eliteness", rather its a strong indicator of "rectal ventitude". When it comes to traffic lights, I'd prefer if you kept both hands on your brakes and used your voice to alert the bunch.

:arrow: Be predictable. Keep an eye on the person in front and an eye on the person in front of them. Stay aware and keep your mind on the job in hand. Don't swerve all over the road and avoid making sudden movements unless there's no other choice. Voice calls are very useful for alerting the riders behind you.

:arrow: Be smooth. Learn how to sit pace nice and smoothly, instead of slinky-ing back and forth. Learn that brakes have a whole spectrum of use, and not just OMGLOCKUP!. Learn how to negotiate corners towing a bunch who are almost blind to it. Conversely, learn to trust that the guy in front is taking the right line through a corner.

new riders: there really is only one way to learn how to ride in a bunch. Let us know if you're coming and we'll try to arrange for you to sit next to one of the more skilled riders down the back for some friendly advice and tips. Riding in a bunch is like riding a bike - all it takes is a little dedication and some practise. Plus if you don't know something, the quickest way to find out is to ask!
Last edited by Dr Matt on Fri May 23, 2008 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
cheers
Matt..

with the right tools, I can do anything
with the wrong tools, you'll have to give me a minute ... and a new right shoulder ... and a new upper spine ...

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Paul

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silks

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Post Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:08 pm

i love it when the president takes charge :cool:

Its very sad to hear about hanson reserve, but i believe it gives a chance for the PACC to expand into another more social area. Now ultimately i guess we love to race, however this type of environment would be a great addition to the calander. It gives a chance for the regular joe to see that he/she is not so different from the members. Its also a chance to meet people you wouldnt normally talk to and give the feeling that you actually "belong" to a club/team. Training is a major part of a cyclists regime and i think its a great idea to share the load with others around :grin:

Could be a good idea to find a meeting / finishing spot such as a cafe or bakery that is in relative proximaty to the hills and beach and where we can sit down as a bunch and chew the fat so to speak

bring on summer
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musher

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training wheels

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Post Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:01 pm

Training

I'm getting excited already about this possible new training schedule!

The only hurdle I need to sort out is this problem I have with working Saturday's at Cycle Worx Semaphore (by the way if anyone needs parts, service or technical advise give me a tingle and we can sort something out at a good price). Is it possible to organise training rides on a Sunday when there are no scheduled crits? Or even make a good moring of it and race the crit and then go for a lighter training ride. If we can sort something out count me in every Sunday.

Cheers

Marty
Ooops! Should have done that front wheel up
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Dr Matt

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Post Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:18 pm

Re: Training

musher wrote:Is it possible to organise training rides on a Sunday when there are no scheduled crits? Or even make a good moring of it and race the crit and then go for a lighter training ride.

yep and yep and not so light when we get proper fit :twisted:
cheers
Matt..

with the right tools, I can do anything
with the wrong tools, you'll have to give me a minute ... and a new right shoulder ... and a new upper spine ...

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Gecho82

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Post Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:55 pm

Thought this post needed a bump....plz read bunch riding guidelines
Ive had a sudden realization of absolute truth!, think thats an epiphany?
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elgalad

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Post Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:01 pm

Double paceline?

Have we considered riding a rotating paceline with short pulls of 30 seconds to 1 minute?

Any thoughts?
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Dr Matt

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Post Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:45 pm

elgalad wrote:Have we considered riding a rotating paceline with short pulls of 30 seconds to 1 minute?

we have. Double paceline is what we do when its cruisy time. Rotating paceline is for when the speed is on the other side of rude :twisted: . 30 to 60 second pulls indicates to me that you're pushing 40-45kph which means the weaker riders will be going out the back. This is usually not the point of organised bunch rides - unless it is the point of a particular ride, in which case it should be advertised as hammerhead time.

Expecting a 30kph cruise and getting blown out the back after 2km does not make a good impression on new members.

If you're looking for a flogging, I can highly recommend the Thursday morning Outer Harbor bunch. Used to be the church just north of the grange/military intersection at 7:15am. Outer harbor and back in ~40 minutes.
cheers
Matt..

with the right tools, I can do anything
with the wrong tools, you'll have to give me a minute ... and a new right shoulder ... and a new upper spine ...

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Liv13

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helium

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Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:17 am

Hmm i agree with Matt but also like the idea of rotating paceline (Hrmmm except not at 45km/hr). We did rotating paceline in Hamilton with pulls of maybe 2min... it was really good practice for racing.

I think Sundays prob aren't the day for it but if there's no racing on Sat's i'd be keen for rotating paceline occasionally. And yes it should be advertised as a hammerhead ride :evil: Not standard bakery run. I guess in that case 2 bunches maybe required... those that wanty a flogging and those that don't. Similar to the Hills/flat land rides :?:

My 2cents :grin:
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Liv13

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helium

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Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:22 am

Ow and bonus to rotating paceline (Especially if we do them slower, e.g. 35km/hr) is you get to sit next to almost everyone and have a chat :lol:
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Gemm

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Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:53 am

Liv13 wrote:Ow and bonus to rotating paceline (Especially if we do them slower, e.g. 35km/hr) is you get to sit next to almost everyone and have a chat :lol:


If you're doing a rotating paceline properly, you really won't have time to chat. It's one reason why it doesn't work very well in a social ride, because it only takes one person to linger next to another in the line for a chat and before you know it there's a gap in the fast line and you get the whole stop start whip thing happening.
:wink:
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Dr Matt

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Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:57 am

Liv13 wrote:it was really good practice for racing.

thats the thing, its not that great a simulation of racing - when racing & going flat out (eg: chasing a break ... or making one :twisted: ) the paceline is in constant rotation and you'll spend maybe 10 seconds on the front.
Alternatively, if its TTT mode, you'll be on the front longer, but then getting down the back quicker after your turn so the lagging strand of the bunch is pretty poorly populated.

Anything else is really just cruising :lol: Training yourself to do things like 2 minute pulls will either make you lots of friends in the bunch because you're doing all the work and are going to get spat sooner or later by the guys taking short turns, or lots of enemies because your doing 2 minute pulls and killing the bunch rhythm meaning the breakaway is breaking away :oops:

Liv13 wrote:you get to sit next to almost everyone and have a chat

perhaps one word evey minute or so as you pass each other :???:

Still its certainly not a bad idea to set a section of high-speed work in the flat runs. Just make sure its got a defined beginning and end and that everyone gets back in the bunch before you roll away.

Gemm wrote:it only takes one person to linger next to another in the line for a chat and before you know it there's a gap in the fast line and you get the whole stop start whip thing happening.
:wink:

Exactly. No matter if your escaping or chasing, maximising the speed is what counts. Smoothness across the whole bunch as you all swap turns maximises that speed. I fail to see the point of training

Liv13 wrote:Hrmmm except not at 45km/hr

and thats the other gotcha - there's a dramatic difference in the strength of the people in the PACC bunch. Hard enough for some is too hard for others and not hard enough for more. One probable solution for this would be to stay together in a large bunch for warmup and then split up into smaller bunches for high speed training which is run in handicap style (bakery at the far end anyone?)
I'd suggest rolling down Port Road to the other side of Birkenhead Bridge, splitting the bunch up there into slow, med and fast groups and racing around the harbour with the finish line being somewhere sensible ... and a few km from the mill so you can roll the lactic out (this should hurt) before tucking into the custard slices :lol: .
cheers
Matt..

with the right tools, I can do anything
with the wrong tools, you'll have to give me a minute ... and a new right shoulder ... and a new upper spine ...

Image
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Liv13

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helium

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Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:09 am

LOL ok i guess the consensus is we don't ride paceline :lol: Meh
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Gecho82

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Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:16 pm

Liv13 wrote:LOL ok i guess the consensus is we don't ride paceline :lol: Meh


correct :lol:
Ive had a sudden realization of absolute truth!, think thats an epiphany?
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Nomorespeedhumps

silks

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Post Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:03 am

I'll be keen for these rides, I'll keep checking the forums for when they are being organised!
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Kellie

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Post Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:38 pm

My suggestion is when we plan a 'flat ride' we make sure we head somewhere we can incorporate a paceline for several kms (like Victoria Rd at O/hrb) and we all know beforehand the designated start and finish place of the paceline. Once finished, we wait for anyone who has been dropped along the way.

It would be best to ensure the finish is somewhere near a car park or side street that can be used to rolldown whilst waiting for stragglers :wink:
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